How can building a startup in South Africa cut your burn?

Jason Kirby (00:02.008) Hey everyone, welcome back to Fundraising Demystified. Today we have Alexandria Procter with us, founder of DigsConnect out of South Africa. Welcome to the show today. Alexandria Procter (00:13.01) Thank you, thank you, Jason; it is lovely to see you again; it's good to be here. Jason Kirby (00:16.728) No, it's great. We met at lunch not too long ago. I was fascinated by your story of being the female founder out of South Africa that raised the largest seed ground, fascinating story. I would love for you to tell the audience a little bit more about what you built at DigsConnect, how you grew to 400 cities and just give the audience a little bit of context to who you are. Alexandria Procter (00:37.896) So I started my company when I was a student at the University of Cape Town. It was a lot of things kind of falling into place. Never quite planned. I never planned to be an entrepreneur. I never planned to be a founder. This is back in like 2018. So it wasn't, I mean, we have like a, now our startup scene is incredible. It's growing really fast. There's a whole lot of like movements around it. But back then it wasn't a big thing. There was a couple, you know, starters. wasn't like this kind of scene. It's almost like I would say like, almost like viable. career path thing, a startup founder. So how it all happened was that I was elected to student government in my third year at university. And my portfolio was called the student housing coordinator. And that's basically helping every student that wasn't in university-issued accommodation to find a place to stay off campus. And at UCT there's about 30,000 students and only 5,000 beds on campus. And so the vast majority of students had to find accommodation off campus, but like there's no plan B. Like if you're not in res, like you're on your own in a way. The university solution to this was to have literally, like a printed-out piece of paper, like an A4 sheet with names and numbers, like that's it. In 2018, 2017, that was their solution. And so because it was my responsibility to kind of work on this, I had been doing CompSci for a year as part of my science degree. I could knock together a really basic website literally over a weekend. And then I was at those DiggsConnect version one. The word Diggs in South Africa means like a commune, like a student commune. It's kind of used also in a lot of like the Commonwealth countries. I don't know; it's very common in America, but that's where the word came from, and it digs connect flowed from there. Also, when I first started speaking about the name in an SRC, the Student Representative Council meeting, because I speak quite fast, I was like, guys, I've launched a website called DIGS Connect. And everyone misheard it. And I was like, wait, what are you launching DigsConnect? And I think, no, no, no, no, it's DIGS Connect. And yeah, exactly, exactly. So I launched that. And again, just to solve a problem I was facing on the SRC is just to solve the campus-wide problem. But it's interesting how I think so often we are the product of context, know, it's kind of the wider context happening in the world around us. And at that time in South Africa, there were a series of protests, nationwide protests called Pizza 4, and there was one called Shackful. Jason Kirby (02:39.448) Keep it PG with digs, D-I-G. Alexandria Procter (03:05.896) And that was focused on the fact that there was no student housing. And it was like every year in January when students came back to campus, it would be this front page of the newspaper: students are homeless, students are sleeping in lecture theaters, nowhere for them to go. And of the 2.3 million students in South Africa, 800,000 are funded by the government because they fall beneath what's considered to be, like, almost an international poverty line in a way. And they really need that funding. They really need that support. And these are the most vulnerable students who need know, the most secure accommodation, good living, good living experiences to break those poverty cycles, to get the qualification to join the workforce. And they're living in really abysmal locations that are just like being taken advantage of by landlords. And so it's quite a dire situation. On the other side, you have the South African private sector, which I would argue is one of the best in the world. would say South African entrepreneurs are incredible because they work in very difficult circumstances. And In almost Africans have been going out and buying flats and houses. And even we have a burgeoning PBSA, which is purposeful student accommodation sector. And these landlords have, you know, a mortgage to pay first of the month; the banks are taking their money, whether you like it or not. They've got to get tenants in paying that rent. And so there really was, you know, from both sides, this need to really connect. But back then, I didn't know it; I wasn't thinking about market dynamics. I wasn't thinking about the burgeoning PBSA sector. I was just like, I've got a queue of students at my door looking for a place to stay. I know there's properties around campus. Let me just check on a website. was literally just that. Built over a weekend. was hideous, but it did the job and you could like list properties or digs and you could like then you could see the list and just call them directly. And it was version one, launched in January 2018. And I think it was just, you know, topical. There was massive tailwinds, was a zeitgeist on campus. Everyone was talking about it. I think also because I was a student, you know, I was, my friends were students, had to have a UCT email address, the access, just felt like it was just it. It just popped up on campus. And so friends of mine are running a few like, Instagram meme pages for university that were really popular, tens of thousands of followers, and they shared it. And there are a few other things that kind of fell into place. My co-founder was an SRC with me and he's brilliant. And he was actually Uber's ambassador at the university when Uber launched in Cape Town. Alexandria Procter (05:22.248) So it was just like a lot of confluence of things that worked out really well and all kind of like sat together. And it just grew insanely fast. I mean, we just took over, took over the campus. We did like ridiculous stunts also where we would throw money off a building and then staple to our flyers. And it started like a riot on campus and I got raggedy tackled. And it was like front page of the newspaper. So these things kind of happened. We grew super fast in 2018. Before I get carried away with the whole story, I mean, I feel like should I Let me pause there for now, but that's kind of how it all started. That was my journey with startups. Jason Kirby (05:54.872) No, it's fascinating. love the ability to do stunts and picking up momentum, taking over the campus. Let's talk about, one, I appreciate the education on kind of just South Africa and just how it's very different from the US. Like the fact that it's 2018, like when I was in college in 2006, we had websites and things of that sort. So the discrepancy of the technology available and how you found the opportunity and took it around with it. Alexandria Procter (06:14.994) Yeah Jason Kirby (06:24.578) Sounds like you picked up momentum, but when it comes to going out there, putting yourself out there to raise money, so it's one thing to get a bunch of students using a service and landlords. Why did you decide to raise money and what was that process like? Alexandria Procter (06:42.524) Yeah, I mean, when I started, wasn't supposed to be a business. It literally was just a website. So I'd never even crossed my mind to monetize it. It never crossed my mind to, to, in any way, make it more than just a platform where students could go on. And it was when it's like getting serious traction, we're almost offered a business model. Like, you know, landowners would go on and put a listing up at 8 a.m. and let's say by 4 p.m. it'll be like on page three or four. And they were saying, you know, geez, could I pay to be on the front page? And this was like, such a novel idea to me. was like, okay, you know, how much did you pay? And, you know, the first round was like, give you, you know, 50 bucks to be on the first page. 50 Rand is like less than five pounds, you know, like two pounds. But when you're a student, that 50 Rand goes far. That was epic. And this was terribly exciting. I mean, this is what I think the first, you know, not to to talk down. I'm sure they're very valuable, know, MBAs or business school or that. But I think in that moment, I learned everything you need to know about business. It's like building a value, people then will give you money for it. And hey, Presto, you've got a business. Like I think all of it kind of comes down to that. Just like create value in the world and just keep diving down that value. then all that money really is is a store of value. And then if you create something that's kind of, you know, one to one with that, you get paid for it. It was really a transformative moment, I suppose, looking back in life. And so sorry. No. Yeah, not at all, actually. I mean, so my co founder, Greg, like he's definitely more entrepreneurial, like he comes from a very fantastic business family, not great professionals. So it's never really like a, we wouldn't sit on the table discussing business at night, we'll sit on table discussing like politics, know, and literature. And so, yeah, he was the one kind of saw, okay, look, this could be a business, we just start monetizing this, this charging down to less than Jason Kirby (08:09.333) And did you think about raising money at this point? Like what was going through? Like when did it realize you got to do that? Alexandria Procter (08:38.184) We never thought about raising. We're like, can do it ourselves. I mean, our hosting, our service was so cheap. I think I was paying like 20 around a month type thing for that. could cover it myself. I was doing the coding. We didn't have to really market because we're just on campus. So we never thought, I didn't even what that meant to raise money. didn't even know what as a shareholder, what is it? I had no idea. I think I'd only registered the business. Like I, when I tried to register, I didn't even know what I was doing. I picked up this random things like choose your tax year. I was like, what's a tax year? And I just, you know, pick that one. So I know what I was doing. The idea of raising was, I didn't even know that was a thing to be done. Look, when Greg joined, he knew a lot more about that. Like his older brother was, was running, you know, a business and he could kind of help us a lot with that. The thing what I think really inspired us to raise was often. know, like I said, good ideas are more of a part of a context of environment that perhaps a person, it's similar to perhaps how calculus, you know, was kind of discovered at the same time by two different people. Perhaps it's similar to student housing is similar. But like any great idea, it's kind of just the product of context. And the reason I'm saying that is because a few other students had started carting onto the same idea being like, okay, look, there's something here around doing a student housing platform. Most of them we didn't take too seriously, but there was one startup out of Stellenbosch and UCT and Stellenbosch University have like a famous rivalry. They're the two best universities in the country. The two very, the towns are very close to each other. And it's always been this famous sporting and academic rivalry between the two. And there was another male-female co-founder team. which also made us nervous because like, we had the whole like differentiating factor. I've been like, we're a male female co-funding team and there aren't a lot of female CEOs and founders in South Africa. And they came out and we're like, gosh, this is trouble. Cause they were good. And we had gone to one of their purchases in Zdeli's and they'd actually mentioned Digs Connect and like listed all the ways we been failing, how that platform was better. And I took some serious notes and went back and I was like, okay, I got to add all this thing, which is great in a way, of low key corporate espionage. Alexandria Procter (10:48.968) But after listening to that, was just in a great and I serious chat. And we like the list of land grab. It's a marketplace business. have to have properties, landlords, you know, obviously come to places like the UK or the US and there's a lot more competition, but Africa, it's a fairly competitive or competitive scarce market. And I don't think, you know, convincing landlords of a new idea, but not to have, you know, lots of, of startups offering the same thing. wouldn't do it. It was a land grab. had to move fast. We had to get to the first. We had to sweep it up and become like almost too big. too big to be overtaken. And that would require obviously, we're like, we need actual resources, we need to make this thing, give it a proper go. And we both come to the end of our undergrad and we're looking at our post grads, being accepted. I was gonna say the science faculty, but it was going to go to law. And we're like, okay, cool, let's have a proper run at this. Let's try and raise, let's go into this process. And so we had been spoken to like a family friend, very much in the network, older brother who had been doing He was an accountant actually in London and had been doing private equity in London, but also was South African. And he was back in South Africa for a few months. And we sat down with him and asked him for advice. And he said, look, he's got a good network of investors in South Africa. And the VC scene, especially then, was in its infancy. There were like, there are a couple of amazing VC firms that have been around for a while. And now there's loads. There's a big Africa focus, which is incredible. But back then there weren't a lot. So. was more kind of like angel investors or family officers or people kind of in the industry. So for us, were in property. So we started trying to, you know, the property guys, with bricks and mortar saying if this is a new angle, or you have to like update your, you know, your fund thesis to include tech applications in property. So that's actually who we went after. We just tried this on the banks and the banks went ported because they got a great network. So even though we're too small for them to invest in, they didn't have a VC angle back then, they knew people that were we could just chat to you and it's kind of it's like that you just got to hustle, you know, it's going to meet people, you got to get out there. Like, it's like pounding the pavement, knocking on doors, cold emails, you know, just like, yes, manning to everything, broadening the service area of the deputy through meetings. And eventually gets in the right room, or what happens with the right person here is they pass it on to one of their mates being like, this isn't for us, but you could find this interesting. And that's how it happened. We actually ended up getting after pitching for Alexandria Procter (13:11.912) I think we started seriously in maybe like 15 November, like mid November 2018. So about 11 months or so after we started, 11 and a half months after we started. And then we got a call about two weeks later from a group of angel investors in Joburg and we were in Cape Town. So we flipped to Joburg, met with them and it was an incredible meeting and they came back to us with an offer. And that was when everything changed. I mean, we had gone out to raise two million, which is very much. in line with what founders were raising back then, like startups seed, startups were raising in South Africa. Cause we had, it wasn't pre seed and we had like a product, was bad product, but we had a product, we had some serious traction. We had like a growing brand. We had a really great team. We had a couple of landlords that were paying us every now and again for listings. was not, it wasn't much of a business model, but like people were paying for this. was clearly something here. And I think then, Yeah, it was enough to kind of get people really excited about it, especially our growth was insane. And so we tried to invest it and they came back. We asked for two million and they came back with 12 million and offer, which was insane. I remember when we got the phone call, I was saying we had this like awful little office. It was like basically like a tin roof on stealth. It was terrible. It was like a death trap the whole year. I was in summer. It was so hot. mean, Kate on the summer. cooking. And then in winter, it'll just rain and rain rain and the rats because the forest and the rats would come in and chill there. was horrific. But all we could afford. And we're sitting in our little like tin shack and we get a phone call and Greg and I looked at each other and we were like, 12 million? what? That is crazy. Like that does not happen. Like I was still living in like my own crappy little student digs paying like you know, minimal in rent and was scraping things together and was very like, yeah, it was just so it was so chilled and that phone call kind of changed my life obviously. I mean, I kind of knew at the time but I didn't know as much. And in a sense, it was a huge check and I don't know if I would advise I mean, you know, in 2024 speaking to an American or British audience, it's not a huge check but if you're like Alexandria Procter (15:32.156) from a hometown called Krabacher, building a startup in, you know, in 2018 in Cape Town, it was a lot. And we were 24 at the time. And I wouldn't recommend, you know, whatever is relatively that size for people now, I think that no matter how wise you try to be and how informed and how Yeah, thoughtfully try to be it's hard not to fall into the common pitfalls of being a first time founder that's given a lot of cash, you know, you just make a lot of mistakes. Scrappiness is important, struggling is important, learning the hard lessons, the hard way is important. It shouldn't be that easy, because then you get kind of sloppy. But we we said yes, the deal and looking back, it was definitely I mean, we got so like those investors, they are incredible. Through this whole journey, it's been six years, six and half years, seven years almost. They have been remarkable, remarkable investors. They've been through us with us through like thick and thin through the COVID years, which are very scary. They really have opened up their network, lot of investors say, we're going to introduce you to all these people. you know, years and you haven't gotten a single introduction, or you got one half-hearted email and then like ghosted after that. So yeah, they were incredible. And that is how we closed our first funding round. Jason Kirby (16:43.97) So. So, know, albeit, yes, the scale is different, but in terms of relativity of experience, like you said, you're going out for 2 million Rand, like that's like a normal company going out for 2 million US probably. And you got 6X that. I that's, you know, pretty substantial in terms of, you know, relative to the space you're in and everything. And just really, you know, context to the audience, you know, roughly you ended up raising only about a million US, which Alexandria Procter (17:00.52) Yeah. Yeah. Alexandria Procter (17:13.788) Mmm. Jason Kirby (17:16.864) Sounds not that much to a traditional US startup who has to go out and raise tens of millions, but when you think about relative cost of being in South Africa and the work that you had, can you just tell the audience from a talent perspective, what kind of talent were you getting? Where were you getting the talent? ultimately, how much did it cost? I think it'd be eye-opening for founders. Alexandria Procter (17:27.75) Yeah. Alexandria Procter (17:40.242) This is why I advocate for everyone to build in South Africa. is just, it is like an undiscovered gem. It's like a maker for founders. It's incredible for like basing your team there. The time zone is obviously very essential, which is incredible. It's English speaking, first language in terms of communicating with your team, in terms of hiring there, customer support, everything. It's just phenomenal. course, it's also because the cost of living is so low, like salaries are proportionately also a lot lower than what you're paying in other countries. And also it's just you developing our country and we need we need jobs there. So you're just doing a good deed for the world or so. The talent is phenomenal. I think the reason why, you know, what so many talented people that work that the kind of skill set that startups need looking at, you know, it's the whole range of software developers, everything from DevOps front end, back end, intro, sick, whatever to your marketing teams, your sales team, your customer service team, like all of that is in Cape Town. And the reason why people aren't leaving is because it's so beautiful. It is such an incredible quality of life if people don't want to go so that you will find an amazing density of talent in the city. Like I think our software is the best in the world. And I really would advocate I think that the African entrepreneur is one of the best in the world. I would say the most famous African entrepreneur, most famous entrepreneur in the world is obviously South African. And even though think he's kind of renounced his, you know, his birth country a little bit. Jason Kirby (18:56.376) Yeah, yeah. Alexandria Procter (19:06.165) But I still learn the accent, you you still kind of hear it coming through into the words that he says. Jason Kirby (19:10.695) For the audience, we're talking about Elon Musk from South Africa. Alexandria Procter (19:13.896) Yeah, exactly. Jason Kirby (19:19.747) For this amazing talent, from the low end, customer support, admin type roles to engineers, what was that salary range that Alexandria Procter (19:29.768) Jeez, yeah, mean, for, you come in customer service, you're paying maybe like, and obviously everything has a scale, but maybe like 10,000 around a month, you're looking at for customer service. Do you want me to try put the $50 amounts while we're going, or should I give rants? Maybe it's good to do rants, because then all your listeners can go, they can go look up the Randall exchange rate. It's a huge Google trend. Jason Kirby (19:45.782) Guys, let's get rambling it off. Jason Kirby (19:53.432) So just for a few, like you're paying like 500, 600, you know, U S dollars per month for, know, kind of customer support, which, you know, I've had staff in the Philippines and it's usually like two grand, you know, a month for, you know, staff in the Philippines, which is a hotspot for customer support. And here you can get it for fraction of that. What about engineers? Alexandria Procter (20:02.224) Yeah. Yeah. Alexandria Procter (20:14.92) Yeah. Engineers, you're looking maybe, so we would hire, I mean, I to hire these all just to hire people that are super smart and from there, and had a good vibe. And from there you can kind of learn anything. So guys who maybe were, we didn't want anyone less than about, it's like, let's say two to three years experience. So maybe mid-level to, you're stopping out to afford them maybe at like the five year mark, know, post, post it's a university, it's a five year. So between like two years to five, six years experience. And for that you probably pay maybe 60,000 around a month. But these were like brilliant engineers. Like we get really good guys like out of us who we knew, yeah, maybe two years through his experience and paying about 60,000 a month. Jason Kirby (20:59.148) Yeah, and that for, you know, one of the stands about three to four grand a month for, you know, a seasoned mid-range, you know, mid experience level, you know, engineer, which is wildly inexpensive and speaks English. U.S. depends on what city, but you'd probably be closer to like 12 to 15 grand a month. Yeah. Yeah. Alexandria Procter (21:00.836) Thank Alexandria Procter (21:12.85) What do you pay for that in the US? Alexandria Procter (21:26.108) No wonder these stuffs haven't erased so much, that's crazy. Jason Kirby (21:28.694) Yeah. So it's four or five times more expensive for talent in the U S and so yeah, so there's definitely an arbitrage play for founders that are building companies can be looking to South Africa for potential talent. And I'm a big proponent of overseas talent. There's just so much good talent out there. Alexandria Procter (21:34.226) Peace. Alexandria Procter (21:45.608) Yeah, definitely. And also there's so much good talent. Also, Cape Town gives you an excuse to come to Cape Town to check in on your team. It's amazing to spend the summer there. I really am so appreciative and I really love Northern Europe, the US. It's incredible being able to have the access to a very grateful to these countries who welcome me in as a founder and entrepreneur, now as a venture capitalist. But I'm not going to lie when it comes to, know, Jan and Fiv. I don't want be anywhere near the Northern Hemisphere. So being able to fly right down South of Cape Town, it's just magnificent. And to have your team at English speaking at the central time zone, it really would advocate for hiring talent there. So yeah, those are developers, sales team pay on commission, but then you're paying maybe like a salary of, depending on the level again, let's 25,000 to 30,000 around a month. So 30,000, there may be like a commission upside on that. It's div is pretty similar, say. Yeah. And then founder salaries. Jason Kirby (22:49.654) Yeah, that's pretty reasonable and justifiable. You raise 12 million Rand, that goes a long way for being on the group. Alexandria Procter (22:59.304) There's a long way office space is cheap. mean, Cape Town is probably one of the most expensive city in South Africa, I think even in Africa, because there's such a lot, there's a huge amount of foreign interest. And so you have obviously like a lot of people coming in from Europe and the US that are buying a lot of property there. It's great for the economy. I'm glad that everyone's investing in the city, but it does make it difficult for local South Africans. But comparatively again, to Europe and America, it is a lot more affordable. So your office space, your utilities, the biggest... downside to building in South Africa for long time was our load shedding. So for a long time, the state power utility air scum has been blighted by quite severe corruption. And it led to many, many, many years of time blackouts. That's varied in intensity, but in the good times, it would be maybe an hour a day, in bad times, it would be eight, 10, 12 hours a day of electricity. There's a lot more people start working around that. They'll the head set up generators, backup power. One of the really good outcomes of that, the outcomes are generally terrible, I'm not advocating for blackouts throughout the country. It was horrific for the economy. It was really tough to work. And there'll times I'll be watching my whole team just sitting there because their laptops have gone dead, the wifi is down and you just pay, watch your money. mean, going away with every second of the clock because my team just couldn't work. And it was incredibly frustrating. It was horrific business. But the one plus side is that we had the biggest adoption of solar panels and distributed any generation. mean, look at how solar panels installed, which is incredible. You're talking about kind of like a move to more sustainable energy. And I think that self-generation is a really good solution. Look, talking about, you know, for the future and sustainability, instead of having one centralized power manufacturer and distributing that across the country. So that was kind of one plus side. I also think it shows South African resilience to adversity. Like there's no power, which in the 21st century is like insane to try to operate around that. But it's like, cool, we're make solutions. We're gonna sit around and be like, this sucks. We did do a lot of that also, we'd sit around and say that sucks. But also we got cracking on solutions. know, like, this is the new normal. What are you gonna do about it? And obviously you look at it from a very high level policy point of view, how do we make sure that we kind of fix this? You know, this, why has this gone to a state where our government has made this happen? Jason Kirby (24:55.021) Nah. Alexandria Procter (25:24.114) but also really in the short term. And that was kind of making solutions around that. And South African seeing opportunities in business there, for example, okay, when you install solar panels, people need to have that kind like energy. How do we kind of account for this right now? So yeah, I think resilience breeds or adversity breeds resilience. So that was the one downside. Jason Kirby (25:41.208) Yeah, not. So I think it's good tip for, founders that are looking at, you know, recruiting talent to consider that. So I want to switch gears a little bit. We talked about disconnect. We talked about, you know, raising money there and what that was like, you know, you through a very normal journey. You know, it sounded like just, you know, in South Africa. but you're onto something different. it looks like you, you know, stepped down from DixConnect, as far as the CEO role. Alexandria Procter (25:56.968) Mm. Alexandria Procter (26:00.859) Yeah. Alexandria Procter (26:06.61) Yeah. Yeah. Jason Kirby (26:10.776) sounds like you're still on the board, but you have since written and launched a book and you have launched a fund. So I would love for you to just tell me like what went through your head to say that my tenure is done here at DixConnect and then to move on to why you chose this other path. Alexandria Procter (26:28.338) Yeah. Alexandria Procter (26:33.032) Yeah. And also just to some context to the listeners that I just came back from a run and I got my time back. That's why I'm dressed like I'm going to, don't a baseball match because literally just post run proctor here. So yeah, the change it was, it was insane. I think I didn't realize at the time just how, just how defining it would be making that change. mean, from university, I went straight out of university, I was sent to this wild university to launch a company. It's all I'd known how to find myself, it was my identity, it was my life, it was my livelihood, it was all these things. Even my visa for travel is generally based on like, it's, you know, a tech talent visa, entrepreneurial talent visa. So it's very much my everything I had known. Yeah, what led up to that's, I mean, could do a whole podcast just on that. And what led to, and what led to me leaving. But I think it was, yeah, again, like a confluence of events of changing context that led to a place where I just wasn't the right CEO for the company anymore. think where the company was going, what the board wants, what the shareholders want, it was very different to my skill sets and the kind of vision that I had for the company. And it's definitely, in many regards, it's a kind of psych, but in other ways it's kind of amazing. I built something that so many other people cared so much about that they was they believe so much in a vision that they thought was the best and just have a different front of mind and that's all right. my co-founder is absolutely incredible and was definitely the right person for what the company needed in the next stage of what the majority of shareholders felt was right for the company. And so it just kind of got to a point where it was time, I think. Jason Kirby (28:21.916) I find it incredibly noble for founders to have that realization and to put what's in the best interest of the company. Cause I've meet some founders where they should do what you're doing, but they don't because their identity is so wrapped up in the organization. And they lose sight of the fact of, this is to grow beyond just the founder, you know, eventually. And, you know, it's great for the company to kind of hit that next stage when founders kind of realize like, Hey, Alexandria Procter (28:32.017) Yeah. Alexandria Procter (28:36.306) Yeah. Alexandria Procter (28:42.81) Thank Alexandria Procter (28:49.52) Yeah. Jason Kirby (28:51.256) I played my role, got it to this point, let's bring in the next champion for the organization. And I guess from that transition, that realization, what led you to deciding that a book was a good idea? Alexandria Procter (29:04.348) Yeah, yeah, I mean, just before I get in the book, just to say I think that. I think that, you know, obviously the founders played the critical role in, in like value Genesis and then building new things and then, sorry about the cough. I don't know what's going on there. Jeez, Louise. COVID-20, right? The founders definitely played the most, you know, critical role and they definitely, I think it's important to always support founders and to back their vision, but I think it is. I think humility is so important. think founders, definitely could get very egotistical. I founders definitely do. think it's such an immense privilege to have other people, if it's investors or angel investors or institutional investors, whatever, other people who take their heart and money and they're willing to trust you and back you and back your vision to put that into your company and into what you're building. And I think that it's an immense privilege. It's an immense, immense privilege. And it's definitely something to think deeply about in what you think you're the custodian of, you know, of their investments. And when it comes to making decisions like that, to put yourself second, it's, in a sense, it is, it is in a sense, putting yourself second, but also, in a sense, it's just you sticking true to your values, your values are, you know, I'm going to take this responsibility, you've given me this duty very seriously, and know that I'm actually not the right CEO for this company, I'm not the right person to give you what you believe are the right returns. I think it's being true to your values and to your reputation to know that you will only ever deliver the best value and the highest possible... Yeah, just the excellence, excellence of work and knowing what excellence is and what the best path is and being true to that. think it just... Alexandria Procter (31:05.244) I think it's the best decision you can make not only for your shareholders, your best before yourself also and the longevity of your success as an entrepreneur, as a CEO and as a founder, because life is long. know, in a sense, life is short and it goes bloody fast sometimes. I mean, can't believe when I turned 30, was like, whoa, what? I'm still 15, aren't I? Like in my heart, like when did this happen? But also life is long, you know, and reputations are kind of all we have in the day. And if you plan to build multiple businesses, if you want to do great things, think that like, knowing that you've always been true to your word when saying to investors, I will always endeavor to excellence. And I think that's important. It's a privilege. It's a privilege to other people trust you with that. And it's, think you should never take that. I don't want to take that lightly. So the change happened in that, you know, so one of the things I spoke about, we'll have some maybe time to leave is that I struggle with focus. I love doing lots of things. I love context switching. And when I struggle to say no to opportunities also, which is something I'm working on, it's hard to kind of say, you know, what what adds to the bigger overarching vision and what the tracks. The book, the book was interesting, because I really love writing. I think that the power of storytelling for changing the world is massive, if not the most important thing we have. mean, in in sapiens, the whole argument that Harari makes is that everything's a story, you everything from what an economy is to currency is to a country to everything, you know, we just like make up these things, these like fraud based consensus on okay, this actually exists, right? Let's like act like it does. The next thing you know, it's like it exists now. Right. And I think that the ability to like really connect with human beings, I think we relate so deeply to stories. And so you can convince someone with like stats and with with data, but I think that's conveyed in really human terms, I think is really powerful. And so I've always loved writing, I have a blog slash newsletter called the aviation club. And when I post on socials, update my you know, my my journey there for anyone, always try to make it, you know, almost like a narrative, I think it's more easy to engage with. I post I regularly on tik tok and on Instagram, and YouTube and all those things. And I just I love taking the story, I feel like Alexandria Procter (33:25.48) know, every time it's lands with the right person and makes them feel hopeful or excited or inspired or like, I'm going to do this thing. I launched, I think it is the coolest, most incredibly rewarding feeling ever. And I actually, have a folder on my phone of screenshots of messages that people have sent me saying that, my gosh, I heard this talk or I this blog post or I this or that or read your book. And it's inside of to start this or do that or, you know, get involved. And it is like the coolest experience, you know, that like a human being's life has like been change for the better. And with the ripple effects of that, I think it's absolutely remarkable. yeah, so the book I'd been writing for a long time, and I actually got approached with a book deal. I'd always wanted to write more seriously. I must have submitted maybe like 100 short stories, articles to like, you know, the New Yorker, most of which just got ignored. I did get one rejection letter once, which was very exciting, because I mean, they read my articles. I was like, progress! They've read it. Very exciting since they're nothing else from them, unfortunately. It's like, obviously kept trying. And I think with everything, like you can't just wait, sit around waiting for your big break, you have to like, keep doing the work. And, you know, wait for that kind of attracted by making the effort as opposed to just waiting for manna to fall from the sky and feed you. And so I'd start this newsletter and I was publishing like crazy, was building up a mailing list and emailing it out and telling the story. And got approached by, they're called Enbi Publishers. They're the biggest publishing house, I think in Africa. It's owned by NASPAS, which is one of the biggest media companies, I think in the world even. Yeah, they're pretty big. They're only best in Tencent, for example, which is definitely there. really, today? no way. So yeah, it's an African company. That's so cool, I love that. Jason Kirby (35:02.634) I know NASP Jason Kirby (35:09.09) They invest in my company. through their family. Alexandria Procter (35:23.475) So Envy publishes one of their companies and they said, we love your story. It's quite interesting talking about, think, take start, started becoming this really like exciting thing. This was like 2021, November 2021, they approached me. It started becoming really like a hot topic in South Africa and they like the angle, especially because I was born on the eve of South Africa's democracy. So it's like, again, this context of South Africa going into... you know, there's apartheid state and democracy, what they the Mandela years, we call the born free generation. And it was like a new country, what does that mean? In that there to have as a burgeoning tech startup scene and the complexity of who I am and all that. So there's a lot of really interesting narratives there, I think. And especially when you want to read about startups, like the gold standard, obviously, is why I combine it. Everyone goes and you can watch those videos like this is how you do it. And there's a lot of information they like building an MVP and customers and iterating that is universal. But it's a very different market condition building and developing economies. especially in South Africa, across Africa, it's very different. And I think that talking about that and how to navigate those dynamics is interesting because it hasn't been documented a lot. And so I started writing, I gave the book to Yolanda, I hell yeah, without really thinking about could I do this? Because a month before then, I'd also been, I started getting involved in government work at a national level, the president of South Africa, Assela Ramaphosa, had appointed me to the board of the National Youth Development Agency. And I started getting really involved in governance in South Africa. I've been South Africa's delegate for things like G20 at COP28, BRICS, and getting really involved there and shaping policy around, know, youth development, especially with entrepreneurship and that kind of startup angle. So yeah, it was a life, I said yes to the book. And it was just two crazy years of my life. And then obviously, you moving to London, you know, to offshore the business here, because we started expanding globally. And so two crazy years of a lot. A lot, a lot. I was just doing everything all the time. I mean, I'd be sitting like in taxis, writing Upstart while I had like a meeting in the background, you know, flying off to India for G20 and you know, working on it just it was absolutely mad. A huge part of the book was written in Amsterdam. I really love the city and I was there for a while. So just everywhere. And then published that in February this year, day after my birthday. And yeah, I had booked tour in May. So step down. Alexandria Procter (37:44.89) a CEO in April had booked tour in May, book was at number eight in South Africa on the best sellers list. That was really exciting. Because usually the books that sell in South Africa are like about rugby, Mandela, politics, you know, and Jesus. They say that being, you know, food of art Catholic, but that's kind of what sells. So to have like a book about tech startups and how people actually reading it, was like, hell yeah, right on. That was really exciting. Jason Kirby (37:55.135) Hahaha Alexandria Procter (38:13.224) And that was the book, it was an incredible journey. And I still write lots, look at my newsletter and I definitely, when I've done enough, you know, more cool things, I'll be writing the second book. I just need more content, more content first, which is probably the fun. Jason Kirby (38:29.666) Well, the last few minutes we have here, let's talk about your fund and how you're thinking about that and basically what type of companies are you looking for. Alexandria Procter (38:41.33) So the fund, I think like everything in life actually in way, kind of not wait for the signs, but you kind of like life pushes gives you a little nudge in a way it's to happen. So after leaving Dates Connect and after Booktworm, I was kind of thinking, gosh, what I do with my life now? You know, like I was thinking of doing kind of like the founder resets of just like chilling out a bit, cortisol resets, and I lasted about a week. It was so boring. Like need to get back to work. The South African General Lecture, this year obviously been massive for democracy globally. I 49 % of the world went to the polls this year. Like, was a huge amount of people voting and change in global politics. And because I work for the government, one of the initiatives that I'd started was called One Million for Democracy. And the goal was to get a million young South Africans registered to vote who never voted before. And we ended up getting 1.6 million new young South Africans in the voters role, which is incredible. The one downside is Only not all of them showed up on actual voting day to vote. So next time we're going to know, get them voted, but then actually get them to the polls on voting day. But that was pretty exciting. And the election happened. It was incredible results. think incredible results off the country. And then the inauguration happened, the President's inauguration on 18th of June. And so I had flown down to Pretoria to the Union buildings for the inauguration, which is happening in the morning. And that afternoon, I actually had a call with the United Nations, the development program. And how that happened is during my book tour, I had been approached by someone who had come to my talk and she said, look, I love your email address. I absolutely love what UPS is about and curious to understand more about textiles in South Africa. And I was like, well, I wrote the book on it. So speaking to the right person. And I got an email two weeks later from literally the head of the UNDP saying, hey, we're having, you know, I want to host a strategy lab and I'd love to hear your context on what you're doing. So was a group of maybe like 10 of us. And it's actually the afternoon of the president inauguration. So it's Saturday that morning, you know, watching our democratically elected president being sworn in, which was this incredibly moving experience. And then I was supposed to go to the hotel to do the call with the UNDP. And because the police blockade, I couldn't get out the venue. So I had to go find like basically like a little broom closet close to the president's office to take this call. Alexandria Procter (41:00.334) So I'm on the call and we're talking about very like UNE type situations, you know, like it was the biggest issues facing humanity, you know, it's this water scarcity and solar generation, agriculture and conflict and how do we solve like, you know, all these crises that are facing humanity, rising conflict in the world and kind of linked to the UNDP sustainable development goals. And they're coming from very high level. Like most people on the call, you know, the 10 of us were they were mostly from governments. policy, public policy, NGO backgrounds. I mean, I'm kind of like this little startup in the corner. And they're coming up from very high level point of view, which is like, look at policy, look at like the global government, it's like a corporate, maybe it's business. And these are all very important aspects. But I think, you know, looking at the biggest issues facing humanity, I think you look at attack from every angle possible. And I'd obviously have this incredible experience with startups. And I'd seen especially in Africa how startups are a fantastic vehicle to affect really rapid solutioning to lot of problems. And where those problems are, you know, obviously often most of the cases purely commercial, should be looking at startups, I believe in free capitalism. But when you're developing a business, especially in Africa, like almost by default, this business is driving progress and are creating jobs and are developing economies and developing, you know, the civilizations and the countries there. And I think that if we're looking at some of the sustainable development goals, looking at startups that are working on solutions, commercial solutions, so they're more sustainable than just charity that are addressing those issues. It gets really exciting, I think. And so on the core, was like, you know, it could be really interesting to set up a venture. What I'm calling this adventure house. I don't know if it's been used before. feel like I never just coined it or not. Adventure house, would be a venture capital fund, certainly capital allocation, resale allocation, but also venture studio. accelerators incubators, all these kinds of terms you look about how to basically create and nurture startups to fix these problems as commercial endeavors, but like focusing on the biggest issues we face. Because if they're on a mission to let's say, look at water scarcity, water management or anything that agritach like that, that farmers or that people wouldn't pay for, but also does help us, not only safeguard civilization, but promote some of these sustainable development goals. Like that's a really interesting confluence. Alexandria Procter (43:24.104) I'm used to my confidence a lot today. It's definitely my word of the day. And so that was kind of where the seeds of the idea started, started sort of taking, know, sprouting a bit, perhaps. And from there, it's actually quite quick, you know, from that first idea to like, I to make this happen. Because when I started trying to people about it, you almost have to speak an idea into existence. And that's the cool thing about being a founder is that you have an idea, you have curiosity, you have energy, and there's just willpower. And that's how you take this like moment, it's just suddenly it's like real and exists out there. People are talking about it. it's like, you know, obviously, the first thing we always do is like, buy the domain, say the LinkedIn page, you're like, okay, we're halfway there, you know, it exists. I've done a LinkedIn post, it's real. But then other people start talking about it, and they use the word, and you hear like the word of your idea, like in other people's mouths, like this crazy, surreal moment, you're like, huh, it exists now. And from there to start chatting to friends about it, the most incredible people and what's blowing, you know, it's absolutely blown me away is just how generous everyone has been with their time and their effort and their advice, you know, in helping me figure this out. I mean, I've never done a business model for funds before. I know how the finance worked, economics worked. I didn't know how the legal's worked. And everyone's just been like literally allocating hours of the last couple of weeks of their time. They sit with me and work through it with me and introduce me to people in their network. And this is not only to Africa where my nation is quite strong, but in the UK. I'm off to Berlin next week and then I'm going to Amsterdam for meetings there. Definitely to head to the States just because people, even I've got some friends in Dallas who are like, yeah, we're totally introduced to these people. They're incredible. They're like 10 extra mission. I mean, I was at an event the other day and there was an ex mayor of like a major African city and he was like, that sounds incredible. You know, she's definitely trying to get African development back. Let's set it up. And I was like, my God, like, wow. So it was been amazing. And yeah, that's it. And we actually, I am. I close when I say I close my first deal, it's more than angel check than the fund necessarily, because I think the same approach you're starting the company or starting anything, you can't just sit back and, you know, I need to break from LPs first, it'd be a very long process, setting that up and saying structuring up and where do you establish it and all those kinds of situations, but rather like killing me run it so long, let me start getting involved, let me start working and start cutting angel checks. And you kind of doing the two concurrently. Alexandria Procter (45:43.268) Speaking about MET3, also, then I found a co-founder potentially, it's, it looks like I found a co-founder for the fund, which is really exciting. Really narrowing down the thesis for each fund. So like fund one, what's it going to look like, getting the new technology set up. So I think you have to figure it out while you're doing it. And it kind of takes shape just by sheer momentum in a way. And yeah, so this is, you know, what's, this is what the vision is, is what I'm working on. And then I first, the five, 10, 15 year horizon is to then set up successive funds that work each have like a different focus within this broader narrative of this venture house, of Faroq's ventures that are looking at solving the biggest issues facing humanity and saving the world. Jason Kirby (46:29.784) Well, it's been fantastic story just kind of hearing the journey from trying to find a place to live to launching a fund, how to save the world. it oversimplified a very long journey. Before we part, just in like two or three sentences, will be some advice for other founders out there that you would give. Alexandria Procter (46:42.681) Hahaha! Alexandria Procter (47:00.488) Can I give three pieces of advice? The first piece of advice I want to say is do not forsake your health. Like it's not worth it. it is... and everyone's going to say this to you, you're not going to listen until you have your first big burnout or until something goes wrong and then you'll be like, But really just like do not forsake your health. Do not like sacrifice sleep, exercise your relationships. Jason Kirby (47:03.827) What's that? Alexandria Procter (47:31.208) happiness, putting things off like you want to be building for life. You want to something absolutely massive. You can race to finish something and you're let me work like crazy for 10 years and then like chill. it's chilling is boring. Like you want to be working your whole life on like really exciting big things that do that slow and sustainably. I'll say my first piece of advice. I, yeah, I mean, it's, mean, you're starting at 20, you have a lot of energy. You kind of can like bully your body a bit, but like you will pay for it later. The sooner you can catch a wake up and like, okay, actually prioritize sleep and you prioritize like eating. good food. And I say that having literally had like half a slice of chocolate for breakfast. But really like prioritizing that is my first. Yeah, exactly. Only half. the other half I'm having after the meeting. That's my first few advice. My second piece of advice is cringe maximize. You should totally cringe maximizing. Jason Kirby (48:08.012) Moderation, moderation. know, have for later. Alexandria Procter (48:24.88) Like if people are laughing at you, you're doing the right thing. It means you're actually doing the work. You're doing the right thing. Like there's nothing will hold you back more than your own idea of, my gosh, like people are gonna laugh at me or they're gonna mock me. Like you have to suck at first to eventually get better. Like how many times does Freddie Mercury probably get on stage and he was booed for being too eccentric or not hitting the right notes or whatever. And he's like Freddie Mercury, you know? And I watch these videos and be like, whoa. And it's just an absolute icon, but he started off being probably a total loser, like all of us start off by being and but that's the only way you can get better. If you're sitting around trying to be too cool and you're like, like, you're not gonna do anything like cringe, maximize. That's how you know, you're on the right path. Like should totally be like, like maximum embarrassment in yourself. And obviously within reason, putting yourself out there constantly, iterating constantly, like putting it out there. It's just, that's critical. I'd say. And the third thing is, I'm on the whole maxing trend right now. I've also been saying wait for someone Twitter that I'm saying maxing behind everything is destiny maxing. Like sometimes I'm the story you tell yourself about yourself is the most important thing. if you start really thinking that like, you know, you live in your destiny, you live in your calling, you live in your truth, you feel like you're seeing signs everywhere. Like, honestly, like, tell yourself, like, this is actually like, you know, the success or the vision or the actualization of what you're working towards. I feel like you're seeing like science, the affirmative making this happen. And even though it's probably like a billion signs that are telling you not to do this, ignore that. Like shut down like negativity, like give yourself delusional optimism, like absolute tunnel focus. Cause I mean, there's a stat that I love. I love mountaineering. I'm very much into my sports and mountaineering is like one of my one of my firm favorites. And there's a stat that I don't want say I love it cause it's a bit grim. Jason Kirby (50:01.101) Ha ha. Alexandria Procter (50:19.048) But what's interesting is that more people die on the way down from Everest than on the way up. And that's because they are so tunnel vision focused that I will get to the top of this mountain. And as somebody experienced when I climbed Kilimanjaro, I got so sick. Like I was horrifically ill on Kilimanjaro. But you go kind of crazy in a way, you're just like, I will get to the top of this mountain or I will die. There's no plan B. I mean, it's kind of ridiculous now staying in London. I'm like, bro, I should have just gone down. relax for a week, go bed and try to get a week later. The amount of being there for like a long time, it'll last a bit longer. But you don't, you go crazy. Like I will get to the top or I will die. And then get to the top and you're like, okay, maybe I actually will die now because I'm exhausted. And you kind of like meh and you give up. And so I think the lesson in that is when you absolutely believe that is your destiny, that you're going to do this, you're going to hit like that goal. You were born for this, that's right. Everything is conspiring to help you get there. Like everyone is amazing. The world's incredible. You're going to make it happen. I really think you start seeing it, start believing it. And then you like, it becomes so easy to finish then it's like when you're doing a run, you can see the finish line. Even though like a care back you're exhausted, you want to stop now you can see it's just another 800 meters. You will gas it way faster than you could have done before. And that same thing also you believe you're so close you're to make it and how many founders speak to you they're like, God, if I knew how hard it was, I never would have started but now it's too late to go back. And I think it's that you know, that ignorance is almost like your best friend, like Don't believe the haters, don't believe the negativity. Be delusional optimistic and self-confident and just go for it and like see the signs for your success everywhere. I mean, if anything, it makes you happier. So why the fuck not? You you'll have more of a laugh. so even all those tips up eventually I'll be like, look, for a while it was awesome. Jason Kirby (51:55.435) Now that's... Jason Kirby (52:07.382) No, I respect that a bunch and it of reminds me back to like, know, the Steve Jobs reality distortion field of just like, make everything warp to your perspective and drive that vision home. So, Alexandria, it's been an absolute pleasure having on the show, sharing your story, hearing and feeling your enthusiasm, you know, throughout the show. So it's, been great and I look forward to, to our audience being able to listen to this and just for, you know, Alexandria Procter (52:13.352) Mmm. Alexandria Procter (52:18.664) Hell yeah. Jason Kirby (52:33.856) if they want to reach out or learn more about you or buy your book, what would be the best way to do that? Alexandria Procter (52:37.992) So I have a website, alexandrioprockett.com and that has links to basically everything. I'm on literally every single social media platform. And I post regularly, I love sharing the stories. I post a lot on Twitter or X. My Insta is private, but I generally do accept people just so I can kind of see who's on them. But everything else, mean, I've got a blog, my YouTube channel, my books available, Insta African Bad Insta, if it's global, it's on Amazon. So if in the US or Europe, you can just get on Amazon. Yeah, kind of everywhere. love, I love trying to keep on engaging with people. So if you send me a DM on any of my social platforms, I'll almost definitely reply to that call. I love, yeah, expanding the network. If anything, I'll probably convince you to come to Cape Town, you know, so. Cool. Awesome. Thanks so much. Bye. Jason Kirby (53:24.642) Thank you so much. We'll make sure to put those links in the show notes. Have a good one.