How can I use Donor-Advised Funds to fund my for-profit startup?

Jason Kirby (00:02.877) Hey everyone, welcome back to today's show. Today we have Patrice King-Brickman with us, CEO and founder of Inspire Access. Welcome to the show today, Patrice. Patrice Brickman (00:16.664) Thanks, Jason. It's wonderful to be here with you. I appreciate you having me on, on this. Jason Kirby (00:22.769) No, I'm, it's a pleasure is all mine. I find your story to be inspiring and impactful. And I would love for our audience to get to know you and understand a little bit more about your story. You know, how did you get to where you are today running Inspire Access and what's your mission with Inspire Access? Patrice Brickman (00:42.328) Sure. You know, I'll start with what Inspire Access is. We're an organization that provides access to philanthropic investment capital to underrepresented founders. And we do this primarily by inspiring individuals and family offices to unlock some of their, what I call complacent capital, sitting in donor-advised funds. And we focused on donor-advised funds for two main reasons. There's over $200 billion sitting in the US in donor-advised funds right now. And unfortunately, and we might get to this later, but our underrepresented founders and fund managers continue to go unseen by the conventional investment community. So that is what we're doing and why. my start in all of this probably started in 1998. we scaled a family business. and we did that with private equity partners. And, you know, I, so I had a front row seat to how integral that, that capital was for us to scale our business. and, you know, We had a great story and a really strong exit in 2013. But over that time, I was probably tucked over around through every financial advisor that we ever had. And yet I had just as much agency, if not more, than my partner. So that lives in me. And that certainly lived. It lived in me and it still lives in me. So we had some liquidity in 2013. In 2015, I started my own fund investing in predominantly women-led businesses. Because I was thinking there's other smart women out there being talked over through and around. And I was right. There are many smart women running incredible companies. Patrice Brickman (03:09.71) I'll jump to 2020. I expanded that to people of color and actually all underrepresented founders. And then in 2021 was looking at a business that had a donor advised fund on their cap table. And that's when I started getting curious about like, wow, I could, I could invest my donor advised funds on a for-profit company. And so that's how we, That's how it all began with Inspire Access. Jason Kirby (03:42.857) Streece, you have a lot to unpack in that story. And one of the areas that you just kind of ended on this point, and one of the reasons why I had you on the podcast was to talk about what is a donor-advised fund and what's the current conception of a donor-advised fund and what's that discovery you just mentioned there in terms of being able to leverage what is considered more charitable giving funds to be able invest in a for-profit entities? Can you kind of educate the audience on these different resources and tools? Patrice Brickman (04:19.712) Absolutely. I'm going to geek out on this for one second, Jason, so bear with me. okay, so at a very basic level for anyone listening who doesn't know what a donor-advised fund is, it behaves much like a private foundation in that you take money, you set it aside into an account, and when you do that, you get a sizable tax deduction because you put money into a charitable account. And it can sit and be given away as you decide to do that and to find charities. So that's the great thing about a donor-advised fund. It's less expensive than setting up your own private foundation, so it's more efficient, pretty easy to use. You can start a donor-advised fund with $25 if you want. The downside is, unlike a private foundation, if you have money sitting in a DAF, it can sit... for generations. So in a private foundation, the IRS is knocking on your door every year to make sure you give away at least 5%. In a donor advised fund, can sit forever and ever, right? So never really getting out. People take the tax deduction. The intent is that it goes out and does charitable good in the world, but it could actually sit and never really get out and do anything. Hence, we have it built up to, I think it's $240-some billion right now. but so what we're trying to do obviously is unlock, unlock some of that money. what we've created. So, so I'm sorry, let me, one more point on the donor advised fund. The other thing about a donor advised fund is most of the DAF holders almost with the exception of very few, would say 90 % of the DAF holders, 90 more than that percent of the people in DAFs, they can only give their money to a 501 C3. which is great. So they can give their money to a charitable cause that is a 501c3. Patrice Brickman (06:23.882) We are a 501c3. So our work around to invest in for-profit companies led by women and people of color and underrepresented founders is that we can, our explicit mission is to invest in for-profit companies. That's why people can invest through us, into us. They can invest into a for-profit company through us because that's exactly the, it's the explicit mission of our platform. Now, I'm going to geek out on you just a little bit. The reason we're able to do that is because in 2015, the US adopted the UN 17 Sustainable Development Goals. Of those goals, there's gender equity, there's climate, there's gender equity, there's racial equity, there's poverty alleviation, economic mobility. Jason Kirby (06:54.12) Okay. Patrice Brickman (07:16.871) the US decided that if we're really going to agree to try to achieve these goals with the rest of the world, we think these are 17 great goals. And yes, we're agreeing to this. In some cases, a for-profit company is better solving for it than a nonprofit. And it actually started with climate, which is not what my focus is. My focus is racial and gender equity. But the climate folks had a lot of money, a group of them, and they said, you know, the not-for-profits aren't solving for climate as well as for-profit companies, and we should be able to use our philanthropic capital to do that. And the US said, okay, you know what, if you're solving for one of these goals, we're going to allow that. Now, importantly, if you're using the philanthropic capital, they can use it to infuse the... for-profit company to solve the problem, right? Just like we're doing at Inspire Access. And the money does not go back into someone's private capital. The money can go back to grow your philanthropic giving. So importantly, it stays on the right side of the tax line. But what's exciting about it is when your money's sitting in a donor advised fund or a foundation, it's invested somewhere, right? It's invested with... in stocks or bonds or a mutual funder. And it's making money for an institution somewhere and you're paying fees on it. So I think what's exciting is we're a platform and a few other innovators in the field where you can take your money out of it, have it go be invested in something. It's mission aligned, you're passionate about, it's changing the world, it's doing good. And then it can come back into your DAF and you can keep giving it away. So it's... Jason Kirby (09:09.961) Kind of a full circle experience in terms of doing good, doing good in a way, like I don't want to say profitably, but you know, essentially. and so just to recap for the audience, a DAF, a donor advice fund is this vehicle to which you can make charitable contributions, do a tax write-off. you're very popular for big liquidity events to park a ton of cash away from, you know, the, the IRS tax collectors. Patrice Brickman (09:09.964) I don't know, I think it's- Jason Kirby (09:37.981) and with the intent to do good at some point. But what you and others have realized is there's an opportunity to incentivize these DAFs to deploy capital for profit, for good, but through a vehicle like a 51C3 that has this type of mission where you're going to create economic impact for a specific purpose, in this case, gender and racial equality. But it could be climate, could be other areas that fit into those narratives. And then as you said, like maybe those investments work out, like these businesses turn into real opportunities and real reach scale and have liquidity events in themselves. That money wasn't a donation, that was an investment. And so that investment comes back to you and flows back into the DAF. So it creates this kind of full circle of impact plus returns and you know, just my personal bias here, you you get your money parked to the big banks, they're making their, you know, a couple of bips, you know, and it's not doing anything, not having an impact and going into people that already have the money. But in this case, it can actually be deployed and go to work, but still yield a return. So I think that's an awesome event of capital allocation. I really, and that's really why I wanted you to come on the show and share that opportunity, that story. Because I think there's just a world that people haven't explored from LPs as well as founders from you know that might be qualified for some of these funds and I'm sure you're focused on gender equality and racial quality, but there's other avenues where this might get founders that traditional VCs or PE may not partake in For whatever reason and this could be an avenue for for them, correct? Patrice Brickman (11:29.678) 100%. And thank you for summing that up so well, by the way. I appreciate when people can explain it and really understand it. I deeply appreciate you doing that. But yes, go ahead. Jason Kirby (11:45.737) So I wanted to touch on another question in this process. you, it's not, me if wrong, but you started Inspire Access with your own capital. But did you go out and raise and bring other donor capital into the fund? Patrice Brickman (12:05.144) We have this year. So this year, starting in January, we have, gosh, I think grew up to 15 or 16 family offices and individuals now. We're mobilizing, know, I wanna be so careful because, I know what's like coming in this week and what, but we're gonna look at our 990, we're pushing 2 million, but we're gonna be, Jason Kirby (12:06.995) Gotcha. Patrice Brickman (12:35.074) We'll be three million, over three million by the end of the year. So, and we're just getting started. So, this is what it's September, October already. But we've had an exciting start. People are really enthusiastic about this platform and I'm encouraged that people like yourself, successful VCs are curious about it. yeah, that keeps me going. Jason Kirby (13:08.713) So, you know, the podcast is around like fundraising and whether it's founders raising capital for their companies or GPs, know, managers raising for their funds. There's always a journey and you had your own fortunate event of creating liquidity and you chose this vehicle with your own resources. But now having set a foundation, you're now out there putting your neck on the line, selling your, know, telling your story, you know, talking about you know, supporting your mission through other LPs. What's it like, you know, going to LPs with this very different vehicle that they are not usually familiar with? You what's kind of that experience? How do you go about, you know, doing that process? Patrice Brickman (13:56.326) That's a good question. And I've got all sorts of ways depending on who I'm talking with. I think, Jason, I'm surprised that often I find myself educating people on the current statistics. The fact that you and I are very much aware of what the investment, overarching investment Statistics are in this country, but often people aren't. they don't realize that, you know, it's 2024 and less than 2 % of venture capital in this country is going to women and people of color. I mean, when you think about that statistic, it's just so astounding. If you happen to be a black woman, that number dips below like 0.8%. And yet black women start businesses at six times the national average. The disparity in how capital is flowing is so clear. And sometimes I find that people are unaware of that. I guess I take it one step further because you think about that. And if we think about, for the sake of our whole community, if our great companies often start, not everyone, but often start by a human having a lived experience, right? You're having a lived experience and you get hit with something in your lived experience. You want to solve a problem, right? You want to solve that problem, right? Think Airbnb or all the medical things we have. I mean, you can go on and on, right? But we're fixing something along the way. And out of that comes this incredible idea, a solution and a great company. Right now, 98 % of our investment capital are focused on one very narrow demographic. So we're focused on one very narrow lived experience and opportunity for solutions, right? So imagine if we started funding the rest of the 75 or more percent of the world and all the solutions because of the different lived experience. Like I have a different lived experience than my white male counterpart, right? I'm a woman, different lived experience. My black girlfriend has a different experience yet again. Patrice Brickman (16:23.148) So we're going to have, we're going to come up with different solutions because we have different challenges and then ultimately different companies. So it's a promise of expanding our venture dollars is really exciting. I mean, to me, there's, it's just, there's so much promise and optimism there when we really pull back the lens and we think about where the investment capital to date has been funneled. So I talk with people a lot about that. Go ahead. Jason Kirby (16:53.813) And yeah, and I think, you know, there's a lot of, you know, historical context that warrants the allocation for the future. Cause you know, typical white male, know, big ego, big risk, you know, has someone at home taking care of the kids, you know, mindset, you know, I can go big. I can do the big thing. I can take the big risk. I can go for, you know, a hundred X returns. where often those of color or women that don't have that access or risk tolerance might be satisfied at a smaller business or maybe not have that large risk appetite to go as big and historically not attract venture capital just because it's historically that way. And there's not necessarily people willing to take the bets and put in the mentorship and the support to enable those opportunities. So I'm curious with the the companies that you're supporting and the founders that you're supporting, how do you underwrite these types of companies? What type of companies do you look for? Because imagine it's not just any business run by a woman or a person of color. So what do you ultimately underwrite in a deal for these types of opportunities? Patrice Brickman (18:10.456) Sure. First, want to thank you for touching on what I call the unconscious bias. So I think you're right. You named that men, historically, white men, and in reality still, are positioned and have been for generations to take more risks. And quite honestly, they're just better positioned. They're better financed, right? They're better banked. They have more money. In 1998, no, 1988, but in 1988, I couldn't have gotten a corporate loan without a man co-signing it with me. So, you know, we've got some, it's pretty crazy, right? And we forget that, know, everything you just stated, so you said it, you're like, look, this, you're... in a situation, if you're someone who's in a situation where you are so supported, right? And in fact, you've been supported for generations and you probably actually got your first loan at your parents' country club, you know, with your dad's buddies or, you know, maybe, or an uncle, a rich uncle, right? And not everyone, I don't mean to be cavalier about that, but the reality is, you know, we've got some catching up to do and I just appreciate you stating that. think, and then I think in addition to that, because that's all we know or that's all the investment, the conventional investment community knows, it's what they trust. And I think there's a conscious bias for sure, but if I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt, there's an unconscious, at a minimum probably, bias for all the reasons you just stated. So thank you. With regards to who I fund, I'm proud to tell you it's not concessionary. So I am looking at companies the way, you know, I want returns. I want to be able to look you in the eye in five years when you and I do another podcast or maybe we're at a different stage somewhere and tell you like, you know what? They were good investments. Like women, underrepresented founders are not just, you know, overlooked, they're undervalued. And they're just great, they're great businesses. I look for all the things that I think Jason Kirby (20:19.667) Lovely. Patrice Brickman (20:37.718) Yeah, you know, you could be talking to KKR or Apollo and they'd say, well, we're looking for a resilient founder and a good thesis. And, you know, they'd go down the list and I would say none of those things are off my list. None of those things. I lean in, I lean into co-founders. I like co-founders. think the start, particularly with startups, because I think it's a grind and I think humans get worn out. So that's probably, that's a Patrice bias, I would say. Otherwise, I don't know that it's too very different other than I'm aware of the biases out there and I don't have them. I'd love to give a shout out. Go ahead. And then I have a shout out to one big P firm that is doing things a little differently that would be fun to talk about. But first I'll let you go ahead. Well, there's a company on the West Coast run by two women, Miriam and Maria. Jason Kirby (21:29.975) good. Patrice Brickman (21:38.058) and it's called Ulu Ventures and they play with like Sequoias and they play with like the bigger they're in Silicon Valley. They've been, they're just closing their fourth fund. They've had three successful funds and they're both, they're both out of Stanford. I forget if they were part of a, I think they started this work when they were, you know, soon after school, but they put together an algorithm. that specifically takes the biases out of the investment when they're looking at these startup companies. And they may invest in 90 companies and it's sort of a very conventional PE model or VC model, I guess. But they have this algorithm where they're not asking the same kinds of questions. It's just interesting. And they end up investing in sectors like products for textured hair, for black women and products for... The guys in Silicon Valley are like, yeah, I don't know anything about that. And I don't know about a woman. So they pass on them and they've had three incredible successful funds and they just raised their fourth. those are the kinds of models and things that I think I love to lift them up and brag about them a little bit because I think... I hope that's the future. Jason Kirby (23:09.59) And that's why we have conversations like this is to inspire. or use different resources or different paths to chart your own. We don't have to look historically only at what has been done, but what could be done. that's ironically what venture is supposed to be all about. when people that look like me are in the decision-making seats of these businesses, they know what they're comfortable with and they know what they know and they have ways to making money. And that's what the business is about. But when people Patrice Brickman (23:27.042) Right. Jason Kirby (23:44.113) like Ulu Ventures, yourself and others that have, you said, different lived experiences that can recognize opportunity that isn't there today because it hasn't been supported or hasn't been funded that can create all new markets. So yeah, like haircare products that maybe get sold in more community oriented type scale where if they have the right resources, they could scale and reach kind of a synonymous brand across multiple communities. and creating a massive exit or massive opportunity. So from what I heard from what you're sharing, you're very much as anyone would say a venture fund. It's just you have a completely different way of raising the funds and deploying the funds and returning the funds. But as far as the mechanics, you're still looking for venture-scale returns, understanding that maybe some bets don't work out. So when you think about portfolio construction, it sounds like it's very similar to it. traditional venture fund, is that correct? Patrice Brickman (24:45.024) It really is. you know, we're staying not a, you know, portfolio per se where it's donor to investment. I call it our ecosystem, actually. So if donors come to us, you know, we have all these funds and companies in our ecosystem. And they determine, they make the recommendation on where they'd like their funds to go. So that's why, and they can also bring us ideas and bring us new companies. And I'll give you an example of that, because it's kind of, it also, it explains another dimension of what we're able to do at Inspire. But, you know, last year I had a woman CEO, white woman CEO on the East coast who wanted to invest in a woman starting a sports marketing agency on the West coast. She had appreciated stock in her company. She was about to have a big event in December. We, She donated the stock to us. We converted it. She got the big tax deduction and got to support this woman on the West coast. And we diligence that in the process. And our diligence is largely around making sure that the founder is getting the money and that it is an underrepresented founder getting the money. So it's not that they're fronting a white guy behind them or... a big firm of white people behind them because, but those are the kinds of things that are, fun for us because I love when people bring me, you know, new opportunities and then we have, you it's just, it's another person in our ecosystem that we can talk about. So. Jason Kirby (26:33.481) Well, I wasn't, you like you just kind of triggered a memory of mine way back when I was in college. was, you know, servicing these different small businesses. And I remember there was this guy who I was selling his, you know, he government contracts and he He was not the owner of the business. was like, who's the owner? it's my wife. And I was like, can we talk to her? like, no, she doesn't do anything. I just put her name on the business so that we can get the government contracts because a certain percentage of money has to go to women-owned businesses. She works at Marriott. I was like, my god, just like playing fraud. Patrice Brickman (26:56.302) That's the best way. Patrice Brickman (27:04.352) Yeah. I think that is back in... I think they've tightened that up a lot with regards to the A8. But no, same, by the way. I also knew some people who were taking advantage of that. And yeah, that's where I hold this exemption and this 501c3 public foundation very sacredly because the work is so important. Jason Kirby (27:13.609) Yeah, this is like 15 years ago. Patrice Brickman (27:34.632) I'm, I'm doing my diligence around that and I, but I'll, I'll take that story one step further. love that you, thank you for sharing that story because you just nailed exactly what I'm trying to make sure it doesn't happen. But, so I'm diligent saying the woman on the West coast who really, you know, you talk about, a male dominated industry with like sports agency, you know, kinds of things. And, and she said, well, Patrice, what if I, what if I exit like private equity companies have been, they look at me, VC companies look at me, they're all white. And I said, Alison, I'll be so happy for you if you exit and make tons of money and sell. I don't care about that. I want you to make the tons of money. And so that's what we're up to. We can't control the capital forever, but we can control closing the investment gap and hopefully, ultimately the wealth gap. It's a lofty statement, but. But if we don't start having these conversations, we're gonna wake up in 10 years and to the same statistics and having the same conversation. you know, it's important. Jason Kirby (28:45.725) Well, that's one of the other topics I want to go into is, how are you seeing things trend? What trends are you seeing in the world that you're focused on? And it doesn't have to be just gender equality and racial equality, but these other kind of for good, for profit industries that you're seeing money go into through these types of structures. What types of trends are you seeing that you think are notable? Patrice Brickman (29:13.506) You know, the two things, so it's, it's not all, there are some bad news and I don't know if, you know, I'm sure you're following some of the litigation and lawsuits that have happened in the country recently and the verdicts. so. Jason Kirby (29:24.243) Fear this one. Yeah. Patrice Brickman (29:26.85) So that is, I'm to put that over here because I get really fired up about that. So actually I'm going to say one thing about that. I think that would be in my mind, a really unfortunate and demoralizing trend. And I think that I'll just state that I think Bloom and I think they're bullies and they didn't stop at affirmative action in colleges and they're not going to stop at black women. I think they'll roll things back in time as far as they can. And so, they extracted one, part of our constitution that was specifically created to protect black folks. It never did its job to begin with. And then he extrapolated it and turned it around and like really perverted the intention. I think that felt soul crushing to me. But I think that's... that's that and that's really almost its own podcast for another day, right? Because there's so much to be said about that. But that does keep me up at night. So that's a trend I would say that keeps me up. On the positive side, there are some really positive things that I see. Number one, I think, and I'm going to put you and the other generation in a good way, but I think millennials on down are... They think about impact. They think about where their money, how their money flows, how they spend it, where it's invested. They really care and in a different way than my generation did. We didn't even know what a stakeholder was. I don't even think that was a word when I was growing up. It's really, that's so encouraging to me. So it gets me excited. And then I guess in tandem with that. We've got this great wealth transfer coming, right? We've got the biggest transfer of wealth and you can speak much more to this probably than I can, but that's going to start in 2025 and go on for at least two decades. And it's the baby boomers are going to transfer this wealth. a lot of it will go to women. I would like to see some structures in place so that intentionally goes to more diverse Patrice Brickman (31:50.626) you know, folks and I'm, I'm not going to speak to that today, but there are some things in the works, you know, I know there are people working to make that happen. I think that's encouraging, encouraging to me. the statistics are pointing to the fact that, you know, maybe possibly the majority will actually go to women. I find, and I forget, I find there's also statistics on how women reinvest in their community differently. They just do. You can call them risk averse or you can call them longer term. They're more patient. They tend to be more concerned about the social impact of what they're investing in versus a return. People can have their opinions about that, but I think that much we know. I think those are some really positive things that are coming our way amongst Jason Kirby (32:47.134) You know? Patrice Brickman (32:48.375) not so positive things. Jason Kirby (32:49.993) I'll back that up. I saw an article come out the other day where it showed boomers, Gen Xers, millennials, Gen Z, and how they're allocating investments or thinking about their investments across different profiles. it's like, hold indexes and real estate, that kind of stuff, but impact investing and thematic investing were on that list where boomers were like, sub 10 % on impact about it was like 10 or 15 % on impact investing and millennials were like 60 or like 56%. So you can just kind of see that there's a narrative there that, you know, things, you know, people are getting educated and exposed to different opportunities and, know, the, was it a rising tide rises all boats kind of mindset and everyone's worried about, you know, what were I going to be like in, you know, 30 years or for our kids and stuff like that. not just Patrice Brickman (33:28.418) nice. Jason Kirby (33:48.865) racial or gender equality, but climate and various other areas of impacting different parts of the world. And I think at least in America, there's a really general, a strong sentiment of capitalism does work when it comes to supporting these different initiatives and supporting causes and supporting businesses that can innovate their way out of problems. that's something I'm capitalist here. you know, big, big, big benefit, and, know, big. and so, you know, when we talk about these different themes, these different movements and just the concept of what we've been talking about, you know, when you get in front of founders, you mentioned that some are referred to you by, you know, donors or, guess, would you call it, would they be LPs under any circumstance? Or they all just, donors can't use that word. Patrice Brickman (34:18.883) You're the great kind of capitalist, right? Patrice Brickman (34:41.622) Yeah. it's, conceptually, conceptually, yes, but, here's how it works. you know, we inspire access sits as the LP on the fund cap table. are, sit as the investor in the company and, then in a cool way that we can, we almost act as an SPV. So let's say we had three people who want to come into Black Star Fund. They can all come in, they come, they, they'll come in to inspire. And then we sit as one LP on BlackStars, which is super helpful for the VC, number one. We can take smaller numbers than they want to deal with. We only take one spot. But back to your point, I think you were asking what I call our participants in Inspire Access. And I find myself saying our donor investors, because they're technically making a donation to us. They are now, yeah, they're making a donation to us and then we're in turn making an investment, but they're really taking their money and not being complacent anymore, right? And they're doing something, they're investing through us with it. So I say donor, investor. Jason Kirby (36:00.593) Yeah. And to kind of go back and educate the audience again, like in a donor advice fund, it's not sitting in cash. You know, it's usually sitting in some investable asset, usually public markets. But it could technically be invested in anything. That's where you kind of come in. It's like, well, why not this? But when it comes to just to help understand the flow, like, so say I'm a donor investor of yours and I care about a particular, so it sounds like I get to choose. you present me a palette of options and I'm like, these are the ones that I align with. And then you're like, okay, we got four other people like you that want to put in X amount of money. Let's go and commit a certain amount to that fund. Fund is a 10 year hold period, say it's early stage. After 10 years, there's payouts, there's 80 % of the proceeds go back to the investors. how does that at the... point of DPI or distributions, how are distributions handled for your investor or donor investors. Patrice Brickman (37:05.282) Yeah, no, thank you. that just gave me the opportunity to brag about Inspire a little more. when I built this, was paramount to me was A, to be the easy button, because in my own world of high net worth families and individuals are busy and they mean to do well, but they need the easy button. So first to be the easy button, second to be super transparent. So people could see exactly where their money's sitting. what it's doing, where it is, and anytime they want. so in that case of like an eight to 10 year fund, that fund will likely and hopefully be making distributions back. importantly, we take a 1 % transaction fee on the whole thing when it comes in. And then our model right now is so inexpensive, it's ridiculous, but it's the model for today. It, you know, we may have to change that and go up later, but for right now, we then would take like a 1 % as transactions come back in only on the profit, not on the corpus. So just on profits that come back. So it's a very low fee. You know, we just are trying to cover the transaction part of it. We haven't, yeah, that's where we are right now. But... But yeah, so when you're coming, when now you've got this account and you put X amount of dollars on there and it went into this fund. Two years later, the fund has a great eggs that are three years and it starts making distributions back. 25,000 is our floor of moving any capital in with investments because we have to have a floor. But let's say $50,000 goes back into that account. Number two things, we'll either transfer back into your DAF if you're interested in that, or we can, you can make a... know, the donation into something else or investment into something else. it's, you know, it's kind of that. Jason Kirby (39:08.529) Yeah. So it's basically just like a regular investment, just, you know, coming out of a DAF and recycling. So, you know, effectively donors have the choice. Like I can, I'll just make up examples, like give to this community food kitchen that will supply and feed, you know, a thousand people over the next month or, and that money is gone and put to use to have that very specific impact. or it can create economic growth in an entity, you know, targeted on, you know, again, whatever the focus is of a particular fund strategy. But then that money can come back and be recycled. And I think that's where, yeah, it could basically double down on that, you know, same initiative. So if you allocate this to say a million dollars to a particular mission that you want to have an impact on, that's a million dollars creating economic value. Patrice Brickman (39:51.916) and get through the shankyachara. Right. Yes. Yeah. Jason Kirby (40:05.875) that will hopefully double, triple, quadruple, whatever the outcome is. And then you can put that money right back into either a similar initiative or if your priorities change after five, 10 years, you can put it in something else, but you're basically getting to recycle it and all tax free. Correct? Now you can't use it personally. You're not going to go buy your next Ferrari, but you know, and hanging out in this world of high notes. Patrice Brickman (40:23.64) Exactly. Right. But it has no... Jason Kirby (40:32.873) high number of individuals that have the means to put a million dollars into such an effort. It's really about moving money and having impact as opposed to buying more stuff or things of that sort. They usually have plenty of money to live their normal lives. Patrice Brickman (40:47.222) And no, Jason, you're exactly right. And you touched on something that I always forget to say, remind people, but that money has been earmarked for charity already. You've essentially, in one way, well, and many times people think, check, I gave that money away, right? Because they took their tax deduction and they don't actually ever have to do anything with it, which, you know, that's whole other conversation. for policy one day, but yeah, so it's just, is, it's money that otherwise is making money for an institution somewhere and there for them to give away, but they, we're recycling it, so yeah. Jason Kirby (41:33.801) Yeah, gets a get recycled minimal fee, you know, structure like 2 % over the course of, you know, a five, 10 year allocation as opposed to, you know, well, I guess there's, you know, the fees out of the, there are fees, but. Patrice Brickman (41:47.618) Yeah, well, if, but, but there, we're intentionally, I, you know, we're, at the dawn of this work, but, my intention was to keep the fees, you know, lower than fidelity, right? The cheapest place where you've got your money sitting, you're actually paying them an annual fee. We're not going to charge an annual fee. you know, and this is our, our state right now, but, but it's, Jason Kirby (42:03.837) Yeah. Patrice Brickman (42:13.43) Yeah, we we're changing a behavior and the thought process and I want it to be as easy and clear for people as possible. So, so far it's working. Yeah. Jason Kirby (42:20.905) And that's it. It's a great mission. And I love getting educated on this when it comes to capital allocation, capital raising, that there's these other vehicles that exist out there. And that's where I spend a lot of my day with founders is just exposing them to alternative paths that might be a reality for them. Part of the reason why I do this podcast is I get awesome education on these things and these conversations. switching gears to the founders listening to today. are not maybe yet in the means to participate in a DAF and, you know, start giving away money. They might have aspirations to at some point when they have, you their businesses materialize. Well, this is to they're potentially a fit for maybe not Inspire, maybe for Inspire. How do they start discovering the existence of these types of funds and vehicles and these mission-driven capital allocators? Patrice Brickman (43:18.766) Well, that's, first of all, they should listen to people like you. And I love, I do love how you help founders, by the way. So I should have said that out of the box. But I don't want to end this podcast without telling you how much I admire what you do with you can, your heart forward with these founders. And it's just, it's so cool. So A, they need to listen to more, listen, you know, more people need to be listening to you and your. creative thinking, I think about this. know, the DAF, the capital is new. It is new. And there are a handful of innovators out there. Certainly they can go to inspireaccess.org. I think, you know, it's funny, DAFs are getting a splash, you know, in the news, but getting to the people who are doing the work, You know, I can name a few. There's Legacy. Realize Impact or another great, they're doing great work. Impact Assets are doing great work. There's a handful of players out there that are really, that are doing this work. And in my mind, there need to be a hundred of us, right? Because there's still $200 billion sitting unallocated in this country and only growing. That's a lot of complacent capital that could be really changing the world, in my opinion. But I'm certainly happy to talk with anyone anytime and point them to a different... Our focus is explicitly women and underrepresented founders, with people of color and every underrepresented group. And our exemption is for the US. So I often get requests or great ideas and great companies. Patrice Brickman (45:21.166) from outside the country and I point them to my fellow innovators and I'm grateful about that. So there's a lot of work to do, but we're getting at it. Jason Kirby (45:34.291) What would be the best way for a founder to get in touch with you? Patrice Brickman (45:38.982) Just go to inspireaccess.org. We have like an inquiry. We're really set up to receive information and we'd love to hear from you. And then we've got materials we can send out to founders to equip them with, you know, it's, we've got a one pager, we've got a deck, but where they can really take to their investors and they can take to their potential LPs. And it describes what we do. then... And then, you know, somebody from our team gets on the phone because people are usually like, really? Are you sure you can do that? And then we just, walk them through, through how great it is. So, and how, how easy it is really. That's, that's, I think that's a key, a key part of this. I'm learning it more and more is, you know, people time is their commodity. So, I think people are, they love the concept and it makes nothing but good sense. Jason Kirby (46:11.792) Thank Patrice Brickman (46:35.512) but we've got to make it easy for them. So I think we're doing it. Jason Kirby (46:39.955) You know, for me, it comes to donating, would say that the hardest part is educating myself on the decision. then once the decision is made, it's incredible. It's just a how much. what's the appropriate calculation for each individual. But I think it's the fact that you make this easy too, that just it's kind of a no brainer for those that have accumulated wealth to have that option and to deploy it as opposed to sit on it. I think in the great wealth transfer, we will see a lot of millennials being like, well, what do I do with this many zeros? Yeah, it's just like, are my options? What are my choices? And so I think it's great to educate people, do podcasts like this and have more material out there for founders to explore what might be a good fit for them when they have an exit. And I'll have a prelude to another episode that we'll be releasing in the near future where we talk about founders making the pledge towards donor advice funds. Patrice Brickman (47:45.132) I'm so excited for you to talk about that, by the way. I'm, yeah, I'm really, I'm proud of you for being early and at the dawn and helping pushing that forward. I think that's really exciting. That to me would be one of the optimistic trends. And I'm glad you're being, you're a part of that. So. Jason Kirby (48:05.511) Okay. Jason Kirby (48:10.215) Well, Patrice, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast today, hearing your story, what led you to starting Inspire Access and opening up a new world for opportunities that doesn't get enough attention. And we'll hopefully start to see more more of funds like yours coming to market and deploying into great causes and great founders that can have material impact in our world today. Patrice Brickman (48:37.07) Thank you, Jason. Thank you for lifting up our work. It's been great. It's been so fun with you. All right. Jason Kirby (48:40.999) All right. I appreciate that. Thank you so much.